Below is the full transcript of Episode 92 of the Autoimmune Wellness Podcast. This transcript is provided for accessibility and reference.

Title: Fiber, Gut Health & the Microbiome with Farzanah Nasser (Ep 092)

Mickey: Fiber is having a moment. Listen to a nutrition podcast or scroll through social media, and chances are you’re going to hear somebody talking about fiber.

It’s linked to gut health, the microbiome, blood sugar regulation, hormone balance, mood, sleep, longevity, and even immune function. But despite all of this attention, most people still aren’t getting enough fiber. And for those of us living with autoimmune disease, the conversation can be even more complicated.

Many people struggle with digestive symptoms that seem to get worse, not better, when they try to increase fiber. Others have spent years focusing on elimination diets, food sensitivities, or gut healing, and aren’t quite sure where fiber fits into the picture.

So how much fiber do we actually need? What does it do in the body, and how can we increase it in a way that supports rather than overwhelms a sensitive digestive system?

That’s exactly what we’re exploring today.

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Mickey: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness Podcast, where we explore topics that help people with autoimmune disease live healthier, more vibrant lives. I’m your host, Mickey Trescott.

And before we get started, remember that this podcast is for educational purposes only and isn’t a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. So always consult your healthcare provider before making changes to your diet, supplements, medications, or healthcare plan.

[00:01:30] Introducing Farzanah Nasser, Naturopathic Nutritionist

Mickey: Today, I’m excited to be joined by Farzanah Nasser. Farzanah is a UK-based naturopathic nutritionist, certified functional medicine practitioner, and passionate advocate for using food as medicine. She specializes in gut and immune health with a particular focus on the connection between digestive health, skin health, and overall wellbeing. Alongside her clinical practice, Farzanah regularly contributes to publications including British Vogue and The Telegraph, collaborates with wellness brands on product development and formulation, and is an accomplished home cook who was a semifinalist in BBC’s Good Food’s Rising Stars competition.

Her new book, The Everyday High-Fiber Plan, shines a spotlight on one of the most overlooked nutrients in modern diets. In it, she explores how increasing fiber intake can support not only digestive health but inflammation, hormone balance, mood, energy, sleep, and long-term health. The book combines practical guidance, meal plans, and delicious recipes to help readers reach about 30 grams of fiber a day in a way that feels approachable and sustainable.

And I’m especially excited for today’s conversation because fiber is one of those topics that intersects with so many of the things that we care about in the autoimmune community, from gut health and the microbiome to inflammation and dietary diversity. And while fiber has been increasingly popular in nutrition circles, many people still have questions about how to make it work for their unique situation.

So Farzanah, I am so excited for you to be here. Welcome to the podcast!

Farzanah: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Mickey: Awesome. So Farzanah, your new book, which is just gorgeous by the way. I got an advance copy and I’m in love with it. It focuses on this nutrient that most people have heard about but probably don’t think about very often.

[00:03:28] Rebranding Fiber From Bland and Brown Foods to Eating The Rainbow

Mickey: What made you want to write an entire book about fiber and why do you think fiber in general is having this big moment right now?

Farzanah: Yeah, no, great question. I mean, I think a lot of people think that fiber is bland, boring, and brown. And it might be something that your grandmother had or stirred into a drink to help her have a daily bowel movement. And it was a great marketing campaign in the 1980s, so everyone just thinks of like bran flakes and, brown foods when they think about fiber.

But it’s not like that at all. Fiber is in all plant foods. It’s in fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, herbs, legumes, spices, teas. It’s the rainbow of colors, and it couldn’t be more beautiful. A lot of people are focusing on foods just for, you know, the micro and macronutrients. And because we can’t digest fiber, it’s assumed that it’s no good for us.

But actually, that’s actually where the magic happens.

Mickey: Yeah. I, I love that, and I love that you explained how colorful fiber is. And, you know, for anybody watching, the cover of the book is so colorful. I’m really happy that you put some really beautiful, colorful foods on the cover to really kind of push back against that fiber is brown and boring narrative, because it is really colorful, and I just love that you accentuated that.

[00:04:48] What is Fiber and Why is it Important For Our Health

Mickey: So let’s start with the basics. What exactly is fiber, and why is it so important for our health?

Farzanah: Fiber is a type of carbohydrate that as humans we cannot digest. So as humans, we’ve got about 20 to 30 enzymes to break down our food, but we don’t have the right enzymes to break down fiber. So what happens when we eat our food, we absorb our nutrients from it in our small intestine, and the fiber then goes to our large intestine where it becomes food for our gut microbiome.

Now, they have thousands of enzymes, and they’re able to break down the fiber, and when they break down the fiber, they actually grow, and they produce beneficial anti-inflammatory compounds for our health that support all areas of health, including things like our mental health, longevity, our hormones, cardiovascular health, you know, reduction of inflammation.

There isn’t really an area that they don’t support. We want to try to get in more fiber. So 96% of the population are fiber deficient,

Mickey: Yeah, that’s a really stunning statistic.

Farzanah: It’s actually a really scary statistic. We are recommended to have 30 grams of fiber a day. Most people are getting about 16 grams of fiber, so just a little bit above half the recommended amount. Now, the difference between 16 grams and 30 grams is known as the fiber gap.

Mickey: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: And that’s what we’re trying to close.

Mickey: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, so hence this is why you’ve written this beautiful book to show people how easy it is to really bring that 16 grams up to 30.

Farzanah: And it is easy, but also, it also takes some thought. So unless you’re thinking about it, it’s, it is quite hard to get to the 30 grams. Yes, we have certain foods that are, you know, high fiber, so they’re like fiber heroes. So like you’ve got the avocado, raspberries, chia seeds. They all have a really good amount of fiber. But it’s more about taking what you’re already having and then trying to layer it with other foods, other plants, to get to hit to the 30 grams a day.

Mickey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that. So we hear so much about feeding the gut microbiome, and as you described, fiber is really there to nourish those microbial species in our gut that are also good for us.

[00:07:11] The Relationship Between Fiber and the Gut Bacteria

Mickey: Can you explain a little bit more about that relationship between fiber and the gut bacteria?

Farzanah: Yes, absolutely. So fiber is the main fuel for our gut microbiome. They feed off the fiber, and that allows them to grow. And when they have the fiber, they also produce beneficial compounds for us called short-chain fatty acids, which are very anti-inflammatory. They are the primary fuel for our colonocytes, which are our gut cells. And once we’ve had enough to support our gut lining, they have an anti-inflammatory effect throughout the body.

So a lot of people may have heard about probiotics, but there are three Ps. There’s probiotics, there’s prebiotics, and there’s postbiotics. When we have fiber, we’re getting the latter two. We’re getting prebiotics, and we’re getting postbiotics.

So for anyone who doesn’t know, probiotics are good, beneficial microbes that you can either take in a supplement or you may get through foods, so fermented foods, so yogurt, kefir, kimchi, sauerkraut. These foods contain microbes that when we have them, they support our gut and our health. Prebiotics is fiber that is in the food, and then the postbiotics is the beneficial compounds that are produced when our microbes eat the prebiotics, when they eat the fiber. And together, they’re the three, the three Ps.

Mickey: Yeah, that’s so helpful.

[00:08:32] The Relationship Between Fiber, The Microbiome, and Immune Function

Mickey: So many of the people listening to this podcast are living with autoimmune disease, and we are really interested in reducing inflammation. Do you have any, insights from research just talking about the relationship between fiber, the microbiome, and immune function?

Farzanah: Yeah, absolutely. This is such an important area of health as well. So we know that up to 70% of the immune system resides in the gut. That’s a huge amount, right? And we know that the microbes in our gut, they train our immune cells, and I love it how Kieran Krishna put it. He said our gut microbes are the eyes and the ears of our immune cells. And we feed those gut microbes.

So every time we have a meal, three times a day, we have an opportunity to feed those gut microbes that are training our immune cells. That’s hugely empowering, and we have a lot of input on what we do, like how we eat, what we eat, you know, lifestyle things like getting outside, that supports our gut microbiome as well. When we feed our gut microbes, we lower the pH of gut. It increases those microbes, and it crowds out problematic microbes. So a lot of these microbes, the problematic microbes, are LPS-producing, which can get into our bloodstream and drive inflammation.

So by having more fiber, we’re increasing the good microbes, lowering the problematic microbes so there’s less to get into our bloodstream. Also, when we have fiber, our gut microbes produce short-chain fatty acids, which is the primary fuel for our colonocytes. That helps to heal a leaky gut. That means less toxins from our gut are getting into the body, which means that’s another way we can lower inflammation.

Mickey: Yeah.

Farzanah: A huge impact on immune cells just by what’s going on in the gut, how we’re feeding our gut microbes,

Mickey: Really, it’s anti-inflammatory by a lot of different mechanisms, and I think you explained that really well. I love the idea of an additive approach. I think a lot of us are used to the message, “Avoid X, Y, or Z,” or, “Don’t do this,” but I love the idea that we need more of something to nourish, and really lower that inflammation. That really resonates with me.

[00:10:51] How to Introduce Fiber When You Have Digestive Issues

Mickey: So one of the challenges that we have in the autoimmune community is that, you know, a lot of us have digestive symptoms that actually feel worse when we increase maybe certain types of fiber. Can you explain maybe why that happens when somebody says, “Okay, I’m going to eat a bunch of fiber,” and they start eating lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and then they’re like, “Okay, my stomach hurts.” What could be going on there?

Farzanah: Yeah, we have to give our gut microbes time to adjust. So if you’re having like a low-fiber diet and you want to get healthy and you’re like, “I’m going to increase my fiber to 30 grams of fiber a day,” You have to do it very, very gradually. If you go from like 5 to 30 grams, you’ll feel awful. You’ll feel bloated. You’ll have digestive issues.

When our microbes start to eat the fiber, this is their food. We have to slowly increase it so they can break it down well. When I first started my journey, when I was in my 20s, I went to see a nutritionist, and she gave me just a generalized meal plan. And on that meal plan, it had an adzuki bean lasagna. And I thought, “Oh, I’m going to be really healthy.” I was like ready for this. I was putting 110% into trying to improve my health, get my autoimmunity into remission. I was just trying different things.

And I made this adzuki bean lasagna, and I ate the whole thing myself. I was so uncomfortable for three days. My stomach was killing. I was full of gas and flatulence. I did not want to leave the house. And up until today, I won’t touch an aduki bean. So sometimes you only have one opportunity with someone for them to make a change. And so you can lose someone if you do that. If someone

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: goes from, like, 5 to 30, they’ll just be like, “This isn’t for me. It didn’t work for me.” And then you’ve lost them. And that’s why it’s really important as well to start slowly. Start with what you’re having, and slowly, you know, increase different foods. So whatever base meal you’re having, you know, to layer it with different ingredients.

And also, when you start eating fiber, you know, maybe just going for another two grams of fiber a day. So if, for example, you’re having a bowl of oats, just as an example, or a smoothie or like a yogurt bowl for breakfast. Say it’s a bowl of porridge. That’s four grams of fiber and four grams of protein. You might start with a tablespoon of chia seeds. Thats two and a half grams of fiber. And maybe after two or three days, you might add, half a cup of blueberries, which is another two and a half grams of fiber. Then you might add some cinnamon, which is, you know, another gram of fiber.

But you’re gradually doing it to allow your gut to adjust. And that way, you very easily go from, like, that four grams of fiber in that bowl of porridge to, like, 10 to 12 grams of fiber. But in addition to the fiber, you’ve got things like if you add ground flaxseeds, you’ve got a vegan source of omega-3. You know, you’ve got plant phytoestrogens, which can gently support hormone balance. You’ve got blueberries that also have anthocyanins, and these anthocyanins can cross the blood-brain barrier and support focus, which is brilliant to have in the morning. You’ve got cinnamon, which is blood sugar balancing.

So yes, you get all the additions of fiber. Yes, you get additional color in your meal. But yes, you get all those additional health benefits that are going to support your health, keep you fuller for longer, you know, give you better energy, better mood for that whole morning as well. And then another important thing is when you are increasing fiber, you also want to make sure you’re hydrating.

It’s really, really important to allow the additional fiber to flow through you well. Yes, it can be water. It can be herbal teas are great. To include broths, vegetable juices, all of these can count towards your hydration as well.

Mickey: Awesome. Yeah, I really appreciate that advice to ramp up slowly. And I think the same reason when people transition to the Autoimmune Protocol, which is very high fiber and high fruits and vegetables, a lot of the digestive discomfort when people transition very, very quickly, and they just start eating tons of fresh fruits and vegetables and home-cooked food, they’re really increasing the fiber a lot, and a lot of times they need that slow on-ramp.

So I love the way that you describe just working in the increments of maybe two grams a day increasing from where they are to kind of where they want to go, because I think that’s a really reasonable approach to really help people not feel uncomfortable. So a lot of times I think in the nutrition community, there’s this myth that there’s, like, a “detox phase”, that you need to feel worse when you start something that’s supposed to be good for you.

But, like, what you explained with your aduki bean experiment, sometimes that just puts people off it they try something, and they go, “This is not for me. I’m not doing this.” So we don’t want anybody being that uncomfortable, right?

Farzanah: No, absolutely. And that’s why there’s a 30-day plan in the book as well, so you can do it slowly consistently.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: And the thing is, with fiber, it’s not like this cool diet or this summer diet or the, like, trending diet. It’s something that we have to do forever, right? It’s not

Mickey: Yeah

Farzanah: two weeks, then we’re stopping. This is a lifetime adjustment, right?

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: This is… we want to get the benefits of fiber to support a healthier, longer life. You know, fiber is the ultimate longevity hack. We know, like, a 10-gram increase in fiber can lower your biological age by up to four years, and that even having a Mediterranean-style diet, which is fiber-full, in your 70s can increase life by another five to six years.

And so we want these benefits. We want a longer, healthier life. We want good mood. And so it’s something that we have to be consistent with, and we have to make it sustainable.

Mickey: It’s a practice. I love that, and it’s part of why I love an additive approach is that, you know, like nutrient density, which is one of the things that I love to talk about, fiber is an overlooked nutrient that I think we just need to be consistently adding.

So I love that you’ve given us a way to do that.

[00:17:01] How To Prepare Beans to Make Them More Tolerable

Farzanah: No, absolutely. And it, another thing it gets a bad rap is like with beans. I think there’s even a saying, “Beans, beans, the more you eat, the more you fart.” There’s a lot of

Mickey: Mm-hmm

Farzanah: Like jokes around that. And when we’re talking about increasing our fiber, even with beans, we want to do it really gently and gradually. And even if it’s just increasing like your beans by like one or two beans a day, just do that.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: They contain a particular, called oligosaccharide, and that can be difficult to break down. But there are actually simple ways to make it more digestible. So, you know, if you’re cooking your beans from scratch, if you add some kombu, that can break down this oligosaccharide and help you tolerate the beans better. If you buy tinned beans, they’re cooked in that liquid, so making sure you’re throwing that liquid away and then rinsing them out.

Mickey: Mm-hmm

Farzanah: Beans that are in glass jars, they’re usually soaked first, so they’re tolerated better. And so just little things like that. Spices, when you cook with things like turmeric, asafoetida, cumin, They can allow you to tolerate the beans a bit better as well.

Mickey: Yeah, I’m somebody who, I have a little bit of an issue with beans if they’re not prepared the correct way. And so I do great with soaking them in salted water, discarding the water, and making sure they soak them for a long time, like 12 hours, rinsing them, and then cooking them really well, and then not over-consuming them.

That’s actually the hardest part for me because I think the flavor is just incredible, especially when they’re cooked in broth and with some of the spices. I, I just want to eat them multiple meals a day, and I’ve learned I just have to have a small serving as a part of one meal, and I can just do that throughout my week.

Properly preparing them really affects tolerance for people.

Farzanah: Absolutely. and like what you’ve just said, with that method, you reduce these oligosaccharides by up to 40%,

Mickey: Mm-hmm

Farzanah: which is huge. So it really does make a difference. So if someone’s tried beans before and they haven’t agreed with them, it’s worth, you know, using those

Mickey: tips.

Mm-hmm. Isn’t it also true that when you include beans in your diet, you work up a tolerance to them too?

Farzanah: Yeah, that’s the

Mickey: Yeah.

Farzanah: the

Mickey: Yeah

Farzanah: to start with one and then maybe two, and

Mickey: Yeah

Farzanah: very, very gradually increase your intake.

Mickey: I found that to be true for myself. For many years, I didn’t have them, and then I actually started writing this last book that I came out with, and there’s a lot of legume bean recipes in there, and I learned right away, like, wow, I just haven’t been eating those for a while. So I had to kind of work up my tolerance.

[00:19:28] Increasing Fiber When You Have IBS, IBD, SIBO, or Other Digestive Issues

Mickey: There are some specific conditions like IBS, IBD, SIBO, digestive symptoms, maybe people who have sensitive digestion. I know we talked about just going slow, but is there any other advice that you have for approaching increasing fiber?

Because as we learned, this is really important, and even if we have some symptoms when we get fiber, we probably still want to figure out how to hack it in a way that feels good for us. Do you have any tips for these people?

Farzanah: Yeah, I mean, it’s always important to get to the root cause of it. So it’s always worth working with a practitioner, like, you know, whether it’s SIBO or IBS or IBD, just to see what’s going on in your gut and to get a personalized approach to help support your gut. So, you know, you might be able to tolerate different foods.

If it’s like an IBS, you know, things like strawberries or blueberries, oats, they might be tolerated a bit better, whereas like apples, cruciferous all these foods, you, you may not. So it’s important to start with what you can have, and then like increase diversity within that.

So with IBS, kiwis are usually tolerated quite well. So you might you might buy a golden kiwi, a green kiwi, a kiwi berry, but get diversity within that.

And because they’re different types of kiwi, they will feed different microbes that are in your gut. And then working to get to the root cause so that you can tolerate, those foods and start to include more plants in your diet as well. In instances like that, it can be helpful to use a supplement like a prebiotic, like a PHGG or an acacia can be helpful. Chicory, which is like a drink, can be great as well. So they take the chicory, they roast it, and they grind it into like, like, it’s like a black coffee. And having that with water, it’s a gram of FOS, so you get a good amount of prebiotics. But yeah, that can be really helpful just as a stepping stone till you can start introducing more things.

Mickey: Yeah. I, I like that you mentioned working with a practitioner ’cause they can maybe help you figure out, like with the SIBO people and the FODMAPs, you know, you have a list of plant foods that you’re avoiding because they cause symptoms, but then there might be a different approach. Like, I love the idea of like a low-dose supplementation.

This is probably where that is very helpful to kind of keep the microbiome healthy because if you have a gut issue, you know, there’s definitely something that needs to be worked with and managed and hopefully you can work on a way to bring your fiber level up within the food that you can tolerate, right?

I love that encouragement to just keep working on it because it is really important. I know some people with IBD will just like go on a complete like no-fiber diet, and it does help manage symptoms, but I think in the long run, we want people to be carefully and, systematically reintroducing some fiber.

So that’s some good tips there.

Farzanah: Exactly. That’s exactly it because people feel really good on the diet and then they stick to that diet and that becomes their long-term diet. And then long-term they’re just, you know, they’re having a negative impact on their gut health.

Mickey: Mm-hmm

Farzanah: really important to work with someone who can handhold you and guide you

Mickey: Mm-hmm

Farzanah: slowly reintroducing foods and, you

Mickey: Mm-hmm

Farzanah: increasing tolerance as well and getting to the root cause.

Mickey: Yeah, I really wanted to have that conversation with you because I know that sometimes this can be like a vicious cycle where we really avoid things. And I mean, this happens even with the immunology, like allergen side of the Autoimmune Protocol where people will avoid foods because they cause them symptoms, so then they’re on this really limited diet, which long term it can be a problem, right?

So we really want to encourage people to get out of that vicious cycle. It can be hard. Sometimes it takes working with a skilled provider, but I want anybody listening who’s kind of in that situation to just be curious about ways that they could be increasing their fiber within their level of tolerance, ’cause I think it’s really important.

[00:23:16] Tips For Maximizing The Digestive Process

Farzanah: Yeah, and also on that point, when you mentioned digestion and, you know, intolerances, what’s really important in addition to the foods that we’re eating is how we’re eating those foods. You know, digestion is a top-down process. You know, a lot of us are juggling so many things, and so when we eat our food, we’re not in rest and digest, and we’re not optimizing digestion because we’re still really stressed out. And when we’re stressed out, we send blood away from our stomach into our muscles to run away from that saber-toothed tiger ’cause our body can’t distinguish whether we’re actually running from that saber-toothed tiger or we’re just stressed out. So actually, when you have your meals, just actually stopping for a couple of minutes, look at your food.

You’ll often salivate when you do. That’s your mouth producing more digestive enzymes. Chew your food. Like, we’re supposed to chew each mouthful 20 to 25 times. You know, we have to mechanically break down the food. Our stomach doesn’t have teeth. all these processes trigger the next one down, the next one down, you know? That then tells, you know, our gallbladder, produce bile, our pancreas make enzymes, and helps with digestion. That helps break down the proteins in our food so they’re less reactive as well, supporting, our immune health and health in general as well.

Mickey: Yeah, such a good reminder. So anybody listening, whether or not you are increasing your fiber, chew your food. I know you’ve worked many years as a nutritionist. I’ve worked many years as a nutritionist. You would not believe how many meals are, like, eaten in a car while driving to work or school or whatever.

And, you know, I know everybody’s gotta do what they, what they have to do, and we’ve all done it, but it is such a great reminder to just sit, take a breath, chew our food, mindfully eat, because that really does affect our digestive process.

Farzanah: Yeah, and also when we’re increasing fiber, we’re less likely to have a lot of the symptoms too, if we’re

Mickey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Farzanah: for one meal a day and notice the difference.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: pay attention to how you feel.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: much eat as well in that meal when you’re actually mindful and present.

Mickey: I love that. So since many of our listeners have used or are using the Autoimmune Protocol, I would love your perspective on fiber during elimination diets.

[00:25:38] Favorite High-Fiber AIP Foods

Mickey: Do you have any tips, or some favorite high-fiber foods that fit within AIP or even some of the early reintroductions on AIP?

Farzanah: Yeah, no, absolutely. When we do the AIP, we’re taking out a lot of the high-fiber foods like the beans, the grains, the nuts and seeds. And so we really want to be mindful about what we’re replacing it with, how we can hit our fiber goals, because that’s really important to support our immune health while on it.

So there are some really great high-fiber foods that you can have. Firstly, the avocado. One avocado, it’s got 10 grams of fiber. That’s like a third of your recommended daily intake. So that’s a great food to include. You know, you could have half, you know, in the morning, half later on in the day.

It’s very easy to add to anything that you’re eating. You can, you know, just have it on the side of anything that you’re having. Raspberries are great. They’re like a high-fiber food. One cup is, like, eight grams of fiber. Again, they’re so versatile. You know, you can have them with anything that you’re having for breakfast.

You can pop them in a, like, a smoothie or, you know, you can just snack on them. Things like sweet potatoes, beetroots, yam, those starchy veggies. A little hack is if you cook them and then you cool them, they increase a particular kind of fiber called resistant starch. So resistant starch resists digestion, so less of the sugars get absorbed, but they stay in the gut and act as a fiber where they feed our gut microbes. So that’s

Mickey: Hmm.

Farzanah: A good hack. Plantain, that’s another nice, high-fiber food. It’s got resistant starch in it as well. But yeah, I think it’s really great to try to include these high-fiber foods, and they’re versatile, and they can be used in different ways as well.

Mickey: I love that tip about cooling the starchy foods because, you know, we’re big fans of batch cooking over here, and so it’s great to know that, you know, when we’re roasting our trays of sweet potatoes or plantains and we’re cooling them and then enjoying them later, that we’re also benefiting from some of that resistant starch from letting everything come down to temperature.

Farzanah: Yeah, no, absolutely. And other things like, you know, you can still have all the lovely greens and cruciferous vegetables. Include fermented foods. You know, you could do like kimchi and sauerkraut as well. And actually fermented foods, which there was a study that was done, but they were having fermented foods with each meal, and it actually was shown to lower markers of inflammation.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: And that’s just like, you know, you can buy it. You ideally want to buy it from the refrigerated section so that you get the probiotics, the prebiotics, which is the fiber, and then the postbiotics, which actually all, all together is called synbiotics. So if you get like your kimchi or sauerkraut from the refrigerated section, you get all of it. But if you can’t, that’s okay too. So ones that are shelf stable will still have the prebiotics, so the fiber from the vegetables, and the postbiotics will still be there. It just won’t have the live, beneficial microbes.

Mickey: I love that. Yeah, we are big fans of fermented foods over here, and one of the things that I also love about fermented foods is that sometimes they’re easier to tolerate for people that have some digestive issues. Like, of course, it depends on the specific issue, so not histamine intolerance, but, you know, people who have trouble with, like, cruciferous vegetables like cabbage, I’ve noticed tolerate, like, a sauerkraut better because it’s kind of predigested a little bit, broken down by those microbes, and then also the, the person making it, you know, kind of mashing it down, and the salt kind of works on it.

So, sometimes that can help you actually increase a food that maybe isn’t very tolerable. And then another thing I just wanted to mention too, I don’t know, Farzanah, if you are aware of the new modified protocol, but the Autoimmune Protocol, we now have a protocol that includes beans and legumes and seeds, and part of the reason why we introduced this is because we really love the research behind fiber, and these foods are very fiber-rich, so it really introduces a way that people can now add in legumes, you know, all kinds of legumes except for peanuts, and then also seeds, but not nuts.

And seeds, you know, your book is full of delightful recipes, which I know we’re going to talk about in a little bit, but now, we can have chia and flax and even the pseudo-grains that are categorized as seeds, like quinoa. So I’m not sure if you knew about that, but that gives people a really good opportunity, if they’re doing the modified protocol, to have a lot more fiber in their diets.

Farzanah: Yeah, no, that definitely makes it a lot easier. And a lot of those foods are so easy just to

Mickey: Mm-hmm. That’s, yeah.

Farzanah: cook as well, right? You batch cook like a chia pudding for the week. You can like add flax to anything that you’re having. And so those are great options, and

Mickey: Yeah.

Farzanah: yeah, easier to hit the fiber goal.

[00:30:39] What Does 30 Grams of Fiber Look Like In Real Life?

Mickey: Yeah, well talking about that, you know, 30 grams of fiber, so let’s assume somebody has never tracked their fiber before. What does 30 grams actually look like in real life?

Farzanah: What does 30 grams look like? So all plants will have fiber, they will have varying amounts of fiber in the plants. Some have high amounts of fiber, like the foods we mentioned, the avocados, the chia seeds, the raspberries, Some we’ll have less. But it really doesn’t matter how much fiber the food has.

What we want to do is start where you’re at, and then we want to layer it. Okay? So you do need to have a basic understanding, on fiber amounts to help you. The book, we’ve got, like, lists and charts that list everything for you, and you learn very quickly what foods are high-fiber and what foods are not.

And sometimes it is just making swaps. So for example, if someone is having… Chocolate is a high-fiber food, but you have to have the right kind of chocolate, right? So if you’re having, like, a milk chocolate, trying to change it and swap it to a 70% dark chocolate. And then, you know, anything above 70% dark is great. So there was one study that was done, and people were like, “What ki- how much? chocolate should we have?” And so there was a finger piece amount, so 30 grams, of either a 70% dark chocolate or an 85% dark chocolate. And after two weeks, what they found is with the 85% dark chocolate, there was a change in the gut microbiome and reduction of negative feelings like stress.

But they didn’t see that in the 70% dark chocolate. 70% is great as well. It’s got fiber. It’s got polyphenols. It’s great for our gut. But they saw the shift after two weeks in the 85%, which is actually why a lot of the recipes in the book, we’ve got a lot of chocolate recipes, they use 85%, dark chocolate because of that. And I think also it’s having ingredients in your store cupboard so that you can just layer it onto your meals to make it really simple. So we talked about breakfast, like how you might have a bowl of porridge and, you know, over the course of two to three weeks, you add different ingredients.

So ground flax seeds, maybe blueberries, maybe an almond butter, cinnamon, chia seeds. You know, you could keep adding things to get there. But it’s this layering effect. The same with lunch. You know, you might have, like, a salad for lunch, maybe with some fish, but that’s a very low-fiber lunch. Like greens, cucumber, tomatoes, they’re mainly water.

So cucumbers and tomato are more than 90% water. The fiber content is low. So what you want to do is understand which other foods you could add to that bowl to increase the fiber and the goodness. So again, it’s just store cupboard ingredients, and we have lists again in the book. But it’s knowing what foods you could add to that meal.

So could it, could you add some, like, tinned lentils or beans? Could you add some artichoke hearts? Two artichoke hearts are two grams of fiber. You know, you could add some sun-dried tomatoes. You could add some olives. You could add some capers. All these ingredients are just things you can buy from the supermarket and layer into your salad. You could buy pre-cooked beetroot and just slice it up. All

Mickey: That’s my favorite personally!

Farzanah: Yeah, it’s one of mine too. And, you know, it adds up really, really quickly, but it’s also, it’s being intentional about trying to add it in because we could all very easily have a bowl of porridge for breakfast.

It’s delicious, but it’s not going to help us achieve our fiber targets. So having the intention of, like, adding different layers, allows us to do that,

Mickey: Yeah.

Farzanah: Ingredients in the home as well.

Mickey: And I love the porridge idea, and for anybody listening and who’s like, “Ah, I can’t do oats because I’m doing the Autoimmune Protocol,” my newest book actually has a buckwheat protein porridge recipe that you guys can use as a starting point. And if you follow me on Instagram, I’m actually about to post a instant porridge that is AIP-compliant, so it uses quinoa flakes.

There’s a buckwheat version, and this is just instead of oats. But you can use it exactly as you’ve described, Farzanah, and that’s actually what I do every morning for my own breakfast, is I have this pre-mixed. It’s quinoa flakes or buckwheat flakes, and then, just hemp seeds. And I throw walnuts, which is a reintroduction, but you could use sunflower seeds.

You can add flax. You can add all of these things on top, and the way that I make it, it’s 12 grams of fiber, which is just, like, almost half, right? Just to start your day. And for me, then I, then I start there, and I kinda don’t have to think about it. And then at lunch, I have a salad almost every day for lunch, and I’m throwing beets, I’m throwing some chopped nuts. Between that, I’m almost to 30 before I even get to dinner, and then it’s, like, less pressure, right, to actually think about it.

Farzanah: Yeah, but that’s it. You can do it really, really easily, but it’s just knowing how you can lay- you have to know how you can layer a meals. Like, even with, like, your buckwheat porridge, quinoa porridge, they’re delicious. And even things, I was having that for a while, and what I really enjoyed it with was, like, a tablespoon of cocoa powder. Again, that’s fiber, and then some dates.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: And the dates melt into it as you cook it, and then they naturally sweeten it. And you’ve got, like, this gorgeous chocolate, you know, buckwheat porridge or quinoa porridge in the morning. And it’s just actually full of goodness. Like,

Mickey: Yeah. You have so much inspiration, you guys. If you don’t follow Farzanah on Instagram, she has, like, the beautiful porridge bowl inspiration. So she’s the one to follow for all of that. But yeah, I completely agree. And you can change it with the flavors, like with the seasons. I love the chocolate idea.

I love adding some cinnamon. And then the fruit, I always put fruit on top. Again, that’s like a bonus, right? If we’re putting raspberries and blackberries, I mean, that’s really increasing the fiber by a lot. But you can really switch up the flavor profile too so you never get bored. I’m at the point where I’m like, “I don’t want anything else for breakfast anymore. I just want my porridge bowl,” ’cause it makes me feel so good.

Farzanah: No, no, I’m exactly the same, and it takes away that decision fatigue, right? You just know what you’re having, you have it, and like you say, it doesn’t get boring ’cause you can just swap the fruit out every day.

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: Or, you know, you can change it seasonally so it never feels like you’re having the same thing, because it’s different.

But the base is the same and there’s no decision fatigue.

Mickey: I love that. I love that.

[00:37:04] Discussing The Recipes In The Everyday High Fiber Plan

Mickey: So Farzanah, I just want to talk about the recipes. So this book, The Everyday High-Fiber Plan, it’s a cookbook. So you have all these informations, these charts about the different amount of fiber in foods and why, kind of half an info book, but then the recipes are just delightful.

Can you talk us through some of your favorite recipes for increasing fiber in the diet?

Farzanah: I would love to. I think a lot of us are all so busy, so all the recipes are really simple, easy, and they’re straightforward as well. I try to do in the book is I love, I love chocolate.

Mickey: You should see the recipe that I have pulled up for anybody watching on YouTube is the, the chocolate cake. So you guys, this recipe is just apples, dark chocolate, orange zest, and cocoa powder. What?

Farzanah: it’s just actually three ingredients. And the thing is, it tastes … If In, in the UK, we have a chocolate here called the Terry’s Chocolate Orange.

Mickey: Yep. I’ve had one!

Farzanah: Have a… And it … I love that, and that cake literally tastes like a Terry’s Orange chocolate. But the thing is, we can make swaps to make delicious food healthy as well.

So the base is stewed apples. You take your apples, and you cook them for eight to 10 minutes, and that releases a special kind of fiber called pectin. So it’s more available when you’ve cooked it for eight to 10 minutes, and it’s very anti-inflammatory. To that, you add 85% dark chocolate, so we know that’s good for the gut brain, and it’s also high in fiber.

And then we add orange zest, which is also a fiber food. So orange has limonin, it’s good for the liver, but it also contains fiber. And then you just blend those ingredients together. So it’s so easy, and then you let it set. And so it’s just real food!

Mickey: Yeah. I’ve been Making it for my mom’s birthday. She loves chocolate. She loves chocolate cake, and she also is on a sugar-free diet. And so I just love that the base of this is stewed apples, and then I can get the allergen-free baking chocolate that I love and make this with that, and I know she’s going to be delighted, so I can’t wait to try that.

I also love you have some amazing legume recipes. So for people doing modified AIP or have reintroduced legumes, this book is full of like, like I’m looking right now at the black lentil soup with pickled red onions. This just looks so cozy and nourishing. You’ve got lots of great legume recipes in here.

Farzanah: Yeah, and I mean, even within the legume family, there’s so many different types that we can, that we can use for cooking, and that

Mickey: Mm-hmm.

Farzanah: plant diversity as well.

Mickey: Mm-hmm. I love that you’ve got snacks. There, there are muffins, and the whole cookbook is gluten-free and dairy, dairy-free friendly or is it dairy-free?

Farzanah: No, it’s not dairy. So the cookbook is gluten-free.

Mickey: Okay

Farzanah: got dairy in it, but there’s alternatives.

Mickey: So for anybody who, you know, I think most of our, our folks when they reintroduce gluten and dairy are the biggest triggers. Trying to steer you guys towards some recipes like butter beans, one-pot butter beans and asparagus.

Looks so good, and the photography is gorgeous. So congratulations, Farzanah. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I’m really excited to make some of these!

Farzanah: My pleasure. My pleasure, and I can’t wait to find out how, what you think of the chocolate cake.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah, I’ll, I’ll post it for sure on Instagram. So this has just been such a delightful conversation.

[00:40:48] Wrap-Up and Closing

Mickey: You guys, one of my biggest takeaways is that fiber’s not just about digestion, it’s about nourishing the entire ecosystem of the body, from that gut microbiome to immune function, metabolism, so much more, everything we talked about today.

And I especially appreciate the balanced perspective that increasing fiber doesn’t have to be all or nothing. We really want it to be this gradual, individualized process, especially for those of us living with chronic health issues, autoimmune disease, digestive challenges, and the like. So I know that so many people are going to be walking away with practical ideas, and they can start implementing right away.

Before we wrap up, Farzanah, I would love for you to let everybody know where they can find you online and of course, where they can pick up a copy of The Everyday High Fiber Plan.

Farzanah: Yeah. So my book, The Everyday High Fiber Plan, is available on Amazon and also Barnes & Noble, and you can find me on Instagram. My handle is @farzanahnasser_nutrition.

Mickey: Awesome. Thank you so much again for joining me today, and for sharing your knowledge with this community. And for everybody listening, thank you. If you enjoyed the episode, I’d really appreciate it if you’d subscribe to the podcast, leave a rating or review wherever you listen, and share this episode with somebody who could benefit from it.

You’ll find the show notes, links to Farzanah’s book and resources, and a full transcript of today’s conversation in the show notes. Until next time, take care, everybody.